#138: Intellectual Property
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Welcome back to another episode of the richer geek, something a little different for you. Today we have Jinan Glasgow George, she has spoken about IP in front of the UN Economic Commission for Europe and been a featured speaker at IP conferences in India, Italy, France, South Africa, Mexico, United Arab Emirates, Ghana, as well as New York City, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Research Triangle Park in the USA.
She is a Forbes contributor, author of the new book The IP Miracle, and has advised the Senate Small Business Committee and several Congressional offices on IP and cryptocurrency.
In this episode, we’re discussing…
[1:46] What actually means Intellectual Property
[3:54] How to protect your intellectual property
[6:04] Understanding the value proposition of your invention
[11:01] What is an IP portfolio for companies?
[13:12] The importance of prioritizing the patent portfolio
[17:00] Faith-based business principles and business principles
[19:46] Patents as a leading indicator of innovation
[24:08] Eclipse IP futures conference overview
[26:11] Where to find more information about the IP
Resources from Jinan
Neo IP | JiNan Gasglow George | LinkedIn | Facebook | Twitter | Instagram | YouTube
+ Read the transcript
Mike Stohler What if you could be doing something smarter with your money that creates income. Now, if you're wanting to get ahead financially, and enjoy greater freedom of choice, if you want a comfortable retirement, and you know you'll have more choices, if you can do more with your money. Now, if you've wondered who else is creating ways to make their money work for them, and you want actionable ideas, with honest pros and cons, and no fluff. Welcome to the richer geek podcast. Where you here helping people find creative ways to build wealth and financial freedom. I'm Mike Stohler, and in this podcast, you'll hear from others who are already doing these things, and learn how you can too. Hey, everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Richard geek, something a little different for you. Today we have Janelle in Glasgow, George, she is an expert, if I may say on intellectual property. And when I say expert, you know if you have talking in front of the UN Economic Commission for Europe, featured speaker at IP conferences around the world, including New York City, San Fran, India, Italy all over the place, a Forbes contributor, author of her new book, which we will get into it's the IP miracle. And she has actually advised the Senate Small Business Committee and several congressional offices on IP and cryptocurrency. Wow, how're you doing?
Jinan Glasgow
I'm great. Thank you so much for having me on the show, Mike.
Mike Stohler
Absolutely. So, you know, in all of this, you know, let's let's talk about people think of intellectual properties, but they don't really know and understand. Tell us a little bit about what that actually means.
Jinan Glasgow
Yeah, I mean, I guess a good way to get into it. When I introduce myself, I usually say I'm a recovered engineer, I had a first career in new product development, research and development, like making new products for an industrial company. And one of the things that I've carried into practicing patent law is this amazing reality of the world we live in, there is only one truly unlimited resource. And that's ideas, right? That's the good news. It's unlimited, you can exhaust it, you know, God created us in His image and likeness, we can create, you know, indefinitely, produce, ideas are worth nothing. They're worth nothing on their own people are afraid someone will steal their idea, your idea in your head isn't worth anything. Intellectual property is just about transforming those ideas into assets. Right. And there are different forms, there are different types of intellectual property to create these assets. And that's what my law practice, new IP is all about. I'm a former examiner with the patent office, but my law practice has focused on supporting entrepreneurs and investors, because these assets are usually the most valuable assets in any business, right? And entrepreneurs are all about impacting the economy, creating jobs, creating wealth, and so intellectual property and Innovation at the heart of that.
Mike Stohler
Yeah. Throughout history, there's been, especially in the earlier days of intellectual property and patent where someone has invented something. And someone I don't know, if you say stole it, but they said, Oh, that's a really good idea. And they went and patented it. And the true entrepreneur, the guy who actually came up with it, or gal was left with nothing. You know, it's just, it's so bad.
Jinan Glasgow
Yeah, those are hard stories to hear. I mean, you mentioned my book, The IP miracle. One of the reasons I wrote it was for entrepreneurs and investors. It's not a patent law treaty is it's really about like, these are the essential things you need to know. So that you don't make those fatal mistakes, like a lot of those stories are because there are mistakes made either the patent scope isn't correct. The filing had some issues with it. And this is a hard reality, right? Because for all those people who have tried pending, it's expensive. It takes a long time, a lot of the times, but here's the deal. 95% of all patents make no commercial impact. Why is that? Because they're done in isolation. It's just this like idea on paper. That's the minimum. That's the minimum way to get a patent. It's not how you create a valuable asset. So there As I wrote the book was to kind of highlight what to avoid and what to make sure that you do to ensure that you are creating valuable assets that will make commercial impact.
Mike Stohler
How can I'll give you an example. And maybe you can help us out on how people can protect themselves. I have a really good buddy who invented something patented, and then was told by this larger company that they're going to buy it, you know, bring it him into the fold. And what they did was they got all of the, I guess, schematics and how he did it, and never signed with him, and then did their own version of it. And he was left out to dry, you know, how can you protect?
Jinan Glasgow
That's a tough scene that one of the reasons that's possible is because, again, the scope is too narrow, like a lot of people come up with an invention. And then they really want to file the patent on it. Say, for example, like you have a new pen design that is like revolutionary, and you want to improve, you know, on anything else that's been out there? Well, this is not the first pen, and what is so unique value proposition of your invention, that focus is too narrow. You want to start there. But then you have to think about How would others work around you like here, it's a twisting activator, have the writing implement? Is it rechargeable? Is it refillable? What other components, you know, exist? Can it just have multiple colors? Like it? I'm picking a pen as a silly example, of course, but most of the time this thoughtful, how would someone design around you exercise is not performed. And this is where you have to go beyond what you think and have to put context around it. That's part of what we have promoted, it's the way that I have practice for 23 years as a patent attorney, is put some data around it, think about it, if you were going to buy a house today, you're in real estate, right? If you're gonna buy a house, or build a house, or invest in it, you need a survey, you need an architectural plan so that then you can decide, do I really want to build this? What will it look like when I'm finished? And what will its value be to me and to anyone else? What does the market value of it right? You could never do that without data. And the same is true for intellectual property. It's too often done in isolation, where it's just your idea into this asset. But if you do data, think of our patent forecast software is creating a visual, as well as the substance underneath it kind of like Google Maps, but for patents, so you can get that survey the big picture from on high. What are the metes and bounds of what the invention would be? And then look at who else is nearby? Who's in your neighborhood? What's the context? Why will they care about it? How different are you is it different in a more valuable way? And I think this is the kind of assessment that anybody can begin to do. I mean, pattern data is free information. uspto.gov, the United States Patent Office has all the data out there for free to be researched and use Google patents has a very user friendly interface. You can do some research there, we just find that if you're not used to reading patents, they can be a little tedious ever read, I'll confess. So it has a deterrent deterrence on a lot of people digging in, but if you're going to create a valuable asset, you need to do this context research to understand what would your asset look like? What's your architectural plan before you build it, just going to a patent attorney. Remember attorneys, God bless us all. We are generally reactive, you go to an attorney and ask them to do something, they do it for you, rather than proactive our approach is use this data, stimulate some q&a, broaden the scope of it, then you file differentiate and file. So this
Mike Stohler
this platform that you have on forecasting, yeah. So yeah, I just have an idea. So it's not just good enough to do it. That forecast I mean, how, let's delve in a little bit more on how that actually helps the investors, the entrepreneurs. And you know, we talked a little bit about the real estate but forecasting for a patent.
Jinan Glasgow
Yeah. So a lot of the time this sort of research in my prior software Kapadia patents, we took a static approach looking at something like a landscape right the analogy to land in the markets pretty helpful. But in truth, I switched over to Pettit forecasts, which has machine learning and AI because pattern data is changing every week. It's more like the weather, like how often do you look at the weather app on your phone, like every day, every week. And yet in patents, if it's changing every week, why would you only look at it once to snapshot. So our patent forecasting software, we call it patent forecasts, it's giving this context that's ever changing. And the reason that you care about that and updating is because it's going to give you the point of view of all the other companies who have created similar patent assets around you and who have businesses, those who value their intellectual property are more likely to value yours. So your job is not just to secure a patent, you want to make a valuable patent, you need to know where it fits. And you need to be watching how it's changing over time. So it's not a one and done. There's a commitment to creating a living asset family, if you will.
Mike Stohler
Interesting. And, you know, I understand you. You also put together IP portfolios for companies, and I'm reading the notes that you did this for a company, they received 13 million in funding. What is What do you mean by the IP portfolio for a company?
Jinan Glasgow
So think about it. And I'll tell that story a little bit, I had a client, early client in the 2000s era, who came to me with their new company, concept, you know, pitch deck, product, roadmap, all of that and said, I want to file a patent. And so after I listened to everything, I had to say, we did a little q&a, I was like, I think this is actually a small patent family, it's more than one patent. Remember, you don't want the other big companies to go around you like you open this episode with that story. So let's really take a look at what you have, let's inventory what your ideas are, and then see what architectural plans, what might it look like if we created a portfolio a group of related patent assets that together give you better coverage and kind of create this little development? Right? If you you know, again, run with a real real estate analogy. It's almost like a development. So that's worth more than a single plot of land that you're building on, right? Because you control the, the the vicinity, you control, access, you control things all around it. So creating the portfolio early on, the guy said, Well, that's going to be expensive. And I thought, well, let's talk about it, how much you're investing to create. This is a high tech product sold directly to companies and consumers. Tell us about like how much you're putting in that this IP is going to be some of the anchor value of the company. And so to go back to your investors, go back to the VCs and ask them would they rather see one patent, or six, or 12, like the number alone isn't important, but 12 is better than one as a general rule. And so we set about the plan, and we prioritized it according to his business plan and product roadmap. And we continually looked at it like this pattern forecasting, it's whether it's changing your company pivots a little, you need to shift the way your pattern strategy that we create up front has to match and align with the business strategy, right. So he used the patents in different ways early on to prove to the investors and de risk the investment, because even if he doesn't deliver on the business plan, he or she, then you end up having some assets that you could monetize, recoup some of the investment, just de risk it out upfront. And then secondly, as the company grew, you use those patent assets to demonstrate Yes, you are innovative, you attract customers, you attract other investors, you attract board members. And then ultimately, because the portfolio, this family of patent assets that are related, strategically developed was valuable in that market context, the Google Maps for patents, if you will, that in forecasts, we could demonstrate it, their experts could confirm it. They were able to borrow as just non recourse debt financing $15 million secured only by the patent portfolio. That's good business. Those are valuable assets.
Mike Stohler
Wow. So
Jinan Glasgow
think about from the beginning. Think Big Think where you're going?
Mike Stohler
Now your book, it's called the IP miracle. What's the miracle part? What is a
Jinan Glasgow
miracle? Yeah, I mean, it is the miracle that human beings alone Create intellectual property. Ai doesn't do it AI is not inventor robots are not inventors. Computers are not inventors, people, copyrights. People create them, patents, inventions, people create them. And so the people factor, and again, that we have each person, an unlimited resource of ideas, that's a miracle, you can always solve problems problems exist, you solve them in an unique way that's valuable commercially, A, then that's an asset that you can create, just with words, Isn't that fabulous, this legal mechanism gives you the most valuable asset, usually, in the company. And that's the IP intellectual property. And they can live a long time, patents live 20 years from your filing date, right, trademarks can last indefinitely, as long as you continue to use them, that's an indefinite value, as long as you continue to use copyrights, or at least 75 years after the death of the author. So these assets, trade secrets forever, if you can keep it secret, right. And then you have data, all of these things are generated by human beings. And I do think it is a miracle that we can create assets out of words create assets out of drawings, that are super valuable in any industry, from high tech and computer software all the way to biotech and pharma. You know, even widgets, if you will, mechanical things, patents cover all of it.
Mike Stohler
Yeah, some of the most ingenious simple things were patent, you know, the paperclip, and it's like, well, why couldn't have come up with a paperclip, you know,
Jinan Glasgow
around you is patented pens. There are so many flashlight patents and a lot of patents just on the activator, the switch the on off is about that end cap, is it on the body? Do you see what I mean? Like the functionality, if it's solving a problem, it's improvement, it's worth looking at, you might decide after you do this, you know, data context exercise, that it's not going to be that valuable, and don't do it. But at least you can make a business decision about whether or not you invest more time, energy and money to create the assets.
Mike Stohler
In your book, the IP merge, you talked about this might tie into the miracle part, the faith based business principles. Tell us a little bit about what you mean by that.
Jinan Glasgow
Yeah, I mean, even at the origin of ideas, my my belief in God in Christ is that we are created in God's image and likeness, like we have power to create, and it's through our words that we do it. Think about it, your business plan is created by words, this is we were created to be creative, to solve problems and to make positive impact create solutions. So that's, I think, at the heart of it, or at the very foundation of it. And then from there, the people factor valuing people, as part of your culture, that it's by encouraging creativity and creating a culture in your business that is positive, that is joyful, that is inclusive, that is, you know, curious that you ask questions, and people are encouraged to try things and see how they work out. I mean, I think from the smallest company to the largest, remember, all great things start small. The other faith based side is you know, I believe that by transforming these ideas into intellectual property, or IP assets, that's another angle on the parable of the talents that Jesus told and that is, we are each given talents according to our ability, and we are expected to invest them, use them, deploy them, and then they're multiplied. And that brings return to us. That's a wealth creator. And God does give us the ability to create wealth. So there's my faith in a nutshell, that
Mike Stohler
word. Yeah, it's very, very good. You also talk about everyone again, the book is the IP miracle. How can we look at you know, future business trends? And try to look at that and whether or not something would even work?
Jinan Glasgow
This is a fun question, because most people don't pay any attention to patents and patent data, most funds analyst etcetera, they might know okay, do you have them? It's a checkbox yes or no. But when you go under the surface and look at the data, I think it's really valuable just a leading indicator. Because the way intellectual property law works patents, you have to to file the patent, you have to invest in creating the patent assets before you have market activity. So before you're making and selling it, you have to create the IP asset and therefore the data that goes along with it, that corresponds to it right. And so if you consider the trend indicator that patent data is, that's how you see predictively, what's coming in the market, a lot of patents never make commercial impact, and yet they build on each other, like 98% Plus, of all patents are improvements. There are new combinations of known things, they are improving on work of others. That's the point of the patent system. That's why you write out the description, explain how to make and use the invention. And in exchange, if it is novel, and not obvious and patentable subject matter, hey, you get this asset, and 20 years of limited monopoly, the exchanges that the public knows about it. So others can immediately be inspired by be stimulated by your solution and consider how to create their own. Again, it's up to you to ensure by following some of the steps in the book, the IP miracle, it will help you avoid this, creating a very limited asset that people design around readily be prepared when you go to your attorney to help them be more proactive, instead of just reactive. And the data does that it shows you what's coming. And also indicates maybe where your potential exit is a lot of tech acquisition, pharma acquisition, a lot of companies that acquire smaller companies, they do that because there is this innovation asset. There's intellectual property that they don't have, you can't go backwards in time and patent the same thing. So whoever has that priority filing date, have a quality asset. That's, that's essential for the large companies step in, we did some forecasting in an area of consumer sleep, it's important that we all get good sleep, right? You probably read a lot about that. But one of the things we noticed was this wearables trend and data, we saw Fitbit leading the pack leading everyone else in this area. And yet we saw Google and Apple, some major corporations that were active product on the market, but limited patent filings they hadn't really gotten there first. So we were projecting almost a year ahead of the acquisition by Google a Fitbit that either Apple or Google would do it because it filled a gap in their portfolio, this public info, everybody can see this. So use pattern data in novel ways more aggressively. It is a little tedious, I'll confess, right? If you're not used to reading scientific and technical and legal things, however, it is super rich data source is great. You can even see who the leading innovators are like, if you just want to get a job with a great company, and you're interested in medical devices, you can see who the top innovators are, who the inventors are, and reach out to connect on LinkedIn. I tell this to students all the time, whatever your area of interest, you can become expert pretty quickly, you can know who to connect with who to network with, and maybe who to get employment with.
Mike Stohler
Because you can you can see, like in the tech world, who's coming out with new products, like constantly, because they have a great r&d, they have good I guess that entrepreneur spirit, and then you see some of the big companies that if they want to do something, like you said, Well, I'm just gonna wait till someone invents it, and we like it. And then we'll just buy that company. And it's just amazing. The two different sides. Now, every October, we want to get into you have a conference. Yeah, you have it's called Eclipse.
Jinan Glasgow
Yeah. It's called the Eclipse IP futures conference. So we're looking at kind of what the future is stick bent, if you will, some trends, technology trends, industry trend areas, and it's an invitation only conference that we bring together about 100 120 people who are a kind of a mix, maybe it's a little bit of matchmaking, but we bring together investors, so venture capital, private equity, and some angel investors, about a third investors about a third entrepreneurs, who you know, often very serial entrepreneurs with some track record of success and we bring together experts and some executives to have interactive sessions around some content. That's fascinating. This is this will be our 10th year We're in 2023. But in 2022, we had Silvina machiney. The first Latina unicorn was our keynote speaker. She invented the unit coin, we were talking briefly about crypto, but also the unicorn hunters show, along with Steve Wozniak and others, so you know, kind of a celebrity there, if you will, and Andre Swanston amazing entrepreneur who told the story of how he launched his own business came out of the financial world launched his own business in tech. And kind of got to this point, we had $9 in his account and took it to nine figure exit. Very inspiring, super inspiring. We featured we spotlight entrepreneurs, to give them a little bit of a platform, no pitch competition, just sharing. Here's who we are and what we've done. We featured a company with a an innovative undersea radar technology called CDR. And that was well received it was one of the favorite speakers also the conference.
Mike Stohler
Yeah, it sounds wonderful. Thanks.
Jinan Glasgow
It's a fun time.
Mike Stohler
Yeah. And, you know, how do people or listeners kind of follow Eclipse? You know, or just what's happening, you know, most likely they may not be able to attend. But how come? Where's the news source?
Jinan Glasgow
Yeah, we do feature some video content in more recent years. We also try it on in 2021, kind of a live cast, if you will. And then some, I guess I would say some edited clips or some you know, meaningful clips from the conference we have on my YouTube channel, Jen and Glasgow George my YouTube channel, you can kind of check out speakers from past years. But you can follow up on it and just say, engage with me through linked in Japan, Glasgow, Georgia, on LinkedIn. And, you know, just reach out to me at Neo IP, if you if you have some interest in that, but I'd love to, you know, hear feedback from people on any of the video clips, we have heard so far that many people have found it useful, and, you know, have been requested to participate. So
Mike Stohler
that. So that's where people could like, if they have the patent questions they can get to they can reach you on on LinkedIn and
Jinan Glasgow
on LinkedIn, or they can email info at ne Oh, Neo IP assets.com. Make an inquiry there. And our team can reach out to you if you have patent questions. Perfect.
Mike Stohler
So two last questions. What advice would you like to leave our audience worth with? Maybe the ones that aren't investors, maybe some of them are entrepreneurs. So
Jinan Glasgow
I think for investors, I would certainly say, ensure that you properly diligence companies on the IP assets a lot of times, and we see early stage investors and even some sophisticated venture, don't fully diligence, the IP, which includes, you know, confirming the scope, the value of it, put it in context around it. I think for entrepreneurs, I say typically, inventory what you have, most entrepreneurs are not fully capturing intellectual property. So you're leaving asset on the table, by not converting ideas into intellectual property assets. So be sure that you look around that you understand where IP comes from that is in in your business, who are the people who create it and ensure that you own it. That's a mistake. Easy to avoid, ensure that you have contracts with all your employees and contractors that you have the IP
Mike Stohler
and make sure no one's already patented.
Jinan Glasgow
Right. And that's research and analytics, right? Patent forecast, and certainly anything that you could even do through get online free resources, you need to know what the examiner is going to do before they do it. It's all public data. So don't miss that step.
Mike Stohler
Where can people find the IP miracle?
Jinan Glasgow
It's on Amazon and places where you listen to the audio books, but Amazon has it all. So check them out there.
Mike Stohler
There you go. Well, Japan has been wonderful, everybody again, the book is the IP miracle. Find it on Amazon. And if you have any questions, go to the expert. Don't go don't go to me. Don't go to online, go to the experts go to the mentors. And Jeanette, thank you so much for being our guest. Thanks for tuning in to the Richard geek podcast, where we're helping others find creative ways to build wealth and financial freedom. For today's show notes, including all the links and resources from our show, and more information about our guests, visit us at www.therichergeek.com/podcast. And don't forget to jump over to Apple podcasts, Google Play Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts and hit the subscribe button. Share with others who can benefit from listening and leave a rating and review to get the podcast in front of your eyes. I appreciate you and thanks for listening
ABOUT JINAN GASGLOW
She has spoken about IP in front of the UNEconomic Commission for Europe and been a featured speaker at IP conferences in India, Italy, France, South Africa, Mexico, United Arab Emirates, Ghana, as well as New York City, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Research Triangle Park in the USA.
She is a Forbes contributor, author of the new book The IP Miracle, and has advised the Senate Small Business Committee and several Congressional offices on IP and cryptocurrency.
As an inventor, entrepreneur, patent attorney, and former USPTO patent examiner, JiNan’s background gives her the ability to see intellectual property from the corporate, legal services and government perspectives – a unique personal perspective not common in this industry. She is registered to practice law in NC and with the US Patent and Trademark Office, and her technical background includes textiles, mechanical, chemical, and electrical engineering. In addition, she has experience with polymer fiber science, composites, biomedical devices, dentistry & surgical devices, fiber optics, software, lockchain, energy, biotech, and pulp/paper science. She has degrees in engineering, law, and theology from NC State, UNC Chapel Hill, and Duke University, respectively.